Piers Gaveston

Joined : 28 Mar 2008 Posts : 152

Just read Alianore's excellent post on the blog today. I'm sure Piers would have approved of it! Hadn't realised that Piers remained unburied for so long despite the fact that his excomminication had been lifted. Edward must have suffered terribly if he could not stand to bury him. I know he'd sworn vengeance, but I don't think that was the whole the story. He just couldn't bear to be separated from Piers. It's very poignant.

Joined : 28 Mar 2008 Posts : 152

And thank goodness Piers' head and body were reunited! I take it we can believe the chronicles that his head was sewn back? I wonder why this was done? And how cowardly for Warwick to hide in his castle!

Subject: Re: Piers Gaveston Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:20 pm

Thanks, Anerje! I do hope Piers would have approved - as I said in my email, I'm sure he'd be glad to know that the two of us are doing our best to keep his memory alive. Wink

I'd agree that the main reason for the very late funeral was that Edward couldn't bear to put him in the ground - not only the revenge issue.

I don't have the source to hand, but yes, I'm pretty sure we can believe the story that Piers' head was sewn back on. Either on Ed's orders, or the Dominicans (who were great supporters of Ed, and vice versa) did it of their own accord because they knew that's what he'd want.
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"Sans lui n'estoit rien fait, et par lui estoit tous fait, et le creoit li rois plus que tout le monde." Without him nothing is done and through him everything is done, and the king trusts him more than any other: Hugh Despenser the Younger and Edward II

Joined : 28 Mar 2008 Posts : 152

It was such a rare thing to do, that yes, I thnk it must be true. And Ed wold certainly have wanted Piers to have his head and body reunited. He must have preserved the body really well to. He must have been in so much torment and despair to 'keep' Piers so long. Thank goodness he was able eventually to have Piers buried.

I wonder how he dealt with the death of Despencer - I mean, in it's horror. I'm sure he had the details recounted to him.

Subject: Re: Piers Gaveston Thu Jul 03, 2008 2:25 pm

Anerje - yes, I'm sure he did - how horrible. One of the men present when he was forced to abdicate was William Trussell, who had sentenced Despenser to death.

I've written about it on the blog, but here's another mention: David Pownall's novel The Ruling Passion, about Ed and Piers, is due out on 29 July 2008. Can't wait!!!
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"Sans lui n'estoit rien fait, et par lui estoit tous fait, et le creoit li rois plus que tout le monde." Without him nothing is done and through him everything is done, and the king trusts him more than any other: Hugh Despenser the Younger and Edward II

Joined : 28 Mar 2008 Posts : 152

Neither can I! I shall put in my order this weekend. Just what I need to read over the summer holiday:) Fingers crossed it's a positive portrayal!

Subject: Re: Piers Gaveston Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:05 am

I'll be rather cross if it isn't, haha! Wink

Just as long as it's not the usual stereotypical portrayals, though...
_________________
"Sans lui n'estoit rien fait, et par lui estoit tous fait, et le creoit li rois plus que tout le monde." Without him nothing is done and through him everything is done, and the king trusts him more than any other: Hugh Despenser the Younger and Edward II

Joined : 28 Mar 2008 Posts : 152

Yes, as long as it doesn't resemble a recent Ed/Piers novel I had the misfortune to read recently......

I'm almost near the end of 'The Cup pf Ghosts' - and am amazed that Doherty can be responsible for the awful portrayal of Piers in 'The Prince of Darkness' when he's so much better in the 'Mathilde' novels - he's even different physically. Main gripe about this novel - had to wait until almost half way through before Piers made his entrance. But once again, I'm enjoying Doherty's portrayal of 'old London town'.

Joined : 28 Mar 2008 Posts : 152

Piers is Perfect! - as we all know jocolor

(I wanted the 500th post on this forum sunny

)

Joined : 28 Mar 2008 Posts : 152

Not impressed with this from the BBC site!

Just zis Guy, you know?

Guy's Tower takes its name from the 10th Earl of Warwick, Guy de Beauchamp. Born in 1272 at Elmley Castle in Worcestershire, Guy was the son of William de Beauchamp and Maud Fitzjohn. William was a celebrated military commander who served King Edward I, and it seemed that his son was to follow in his footsteps. When his father died in 1298, Guy became the Earl of Warwick and was a notable member of the king's forces at the Battle of Falkirk. Guy was a strong leader in combat, with tales of a fight with a knight called Coebrand (by all accounts a giant who could never be slain) becoming local legend.

He also had his fair share of wives. His first marriage was to Isabella de Clare in 1297, but they divorced. He then married Alice Flamstead, but this did not last either. On 12 February, 1309 he married Scottish heiress Alice de Teoni, who bore him heirs of his own. Guy was also quite a political force, and with a group of friends formed a collective known as the Ordainers. This 14th-Century gang of earls used their power and influence to try and gain some control over how King Edward II ruled the country when he came to power in 1307.

Edward II was seen as a weak and useless king, all the more so for the rumours of his affair with another man, Piers Gaveston. A Gascon knight, the first Earl of Cornwall and something of a smarmy git, Gaveston was the 'favourite' at court. When Edward was still the Prince Regent, his friend Gaveston found it funny to give the other earls nicknames. Some of them received monikers such as 'Whoreson', while Guy de Beauchamp was teased for his dark complexion, becoming 'The Black Dog of Arden'. Edward took great delight in Gaveston's wit and the ridicule of the other men at court, so much so that in 1308 when the new king left for France to marry Isabella, the daughter of King Philip IV of France and Queen Jeanne of Navarre1, he left Gaveston in charge.

This didn't go down too well with the Ordainers (especially Thomas Plantagenet, the 2nd Earl of Lancaster), and when the newly-married Edward returned from France, rumour of an unsanctimonious relationship between Piers and Edward flourished. Especially after Gaveston took to wearing royal purple robes, hung off the king's arm at the coronation and slept in his chambers that very night! For this, Gaveston was banished from court, apparently leaving Edward unconsolable.

In 1312, Gaveston attempted to return to Edward's side, having been promised his life would be safe. However, the Ordainers got a hold of him first, and Guy supposedly barked at the wayward man:

The Black Dog of Arden is come to keep his oath which he was sworn, that you should one day feel his teeth.
Under the impression that Gaveston had broken the agreement of his banishment, Thomas Plantagenet, along with Guy, made the exile their prisoner and took him to Warwick Castle on the 10 June, 1312. Here, in the Great Hall, a rather quick trial by Gaveston's peers (the Ordainers) was undertaken. Death was the sentence, and on the 19 June the knight of Gascon was promptly marched, kicking and screaming, to Blacklow Hill where he was beheaded. On hearing the news, Edward was again unconsolable, crying into his sleeves.

Guy was later pardoned in 1313 for his part in capturing Gaveston, but the damage was done. His relationship with the king was a tense one, and he also later refused to take part in the Scottish military campaigns of 1314, perhaps in consideration for his wife and respecting her heritage. On 12 August, 1315 he suddenly died. There were rumours of him being poisoned, but at the age of 43 he had fared quite well, surviving a few battles, a few wives and no doubt other countless attempts on his life over the years.

Joined : 28 Mar 2008 Posts : 152

It's from

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A21605735

'smarmy git' - what a cheek!

Subject: Re: Piers Gaveston Sat Jul 12, 2008 9:51 pm

I'd expect better from the BBC. What a load of nonsense! Thomas of Lancaster was never called Plantagenet (neither was anyone else till the 15th century) and they get Warwick's marriages hilariously wrong. He never married Isabel de Clare, they were only betrothed, and 'Alice Flamstead' never existed - his only wife Alice de Toeni was the daughter of the lord of Flamstead, and certainly not Scottish! So all that bit about respecting his wife's heritage is wrong too. How do they know Piers slept in Ed's chamber the night of the coronation? Maybe he did, but there's no source that says so.

'Smarmy git'??? How dare they! Everyone knows Piers was perfect! king

_________________
"Sans lui n'estoit rien fait, et par lui estoit tous fait, et le creoit li rois plus que tout le monde." Without him nothing is done and through him everything is done, and the king trusts him more than any other: Hugh Despenser the Younger and Edward II

Joined : 28 Mar 2008 Posts : 152

The whole article was just pathetic. Just a shame they give out so many historical inaccuracies. And Piers was just compltely perfect! Of that, there is no doubt! king

Joined : 28 Mar 2008 Posts : 152

Piers - blonde or dark-haired?

Am currently reading 'The Ruling Passion', just started it actually. And Piers is mentioned as flicking away his 'golden hair'. Usually Piers is always potrayed as being dark haired. What a shame there are no portraits or likenesses from that time. I've always thought of Piers as dark-haired.

Joined : 28 Mar 2008 Posts : 152

btw, Piers is described as extremely handsome and charming in the opening chapters. Can't disagree with that:) He's sort of like Ed's hero.