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Alianore
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PostSubject: Roger   Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:09 pm

Roger Mortimer, Lord of Wigmore and first Earl of March, was born on 25 April 1287 and executed at Tyburn on 29 November 1330. His life story sounds like a novel, except that no novelist would dare make it up. Loyal to Edward II until the actions of Edward's favourite Hugh le Despenser pushed him into rebellion. Escaped from the supposedly impregnable Tower. Seduced a queen. Led the first successful invasion of England for 260 years. The de facto ruler of England from 1327 to 1330.

And did he kill a king, too??

Any opinions or information you have on Roger?
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PostSubject: Languages   Mon Oct 01, 2007 3:37 pm

I wonder how many languages he spoke. Norman French and English of course, most probably Welsh and maybe Latin. But what of the military campaigns? I very much doubt that either the Irishmen or the Scots spoke any French. Did they talk in English or did Roger speak Irish too?
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PostSubject: Re: Roger   Mon Oct 01, 2007 5:29 pm

Interesting question, Elflady. I would imagine that the Anglo-Irish nobility spoke Norman French, and that's the language Roger used with them. As for the non-nobles - they probably only spoke Irish, so Roger may have used interpreters - though it's possible that he picked up quite a bit of Irish, too, as he spent a few years there. Some people in Scotland spoke English, and again, the nobility would have spoken French (I know Robert Bruce did)

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"Sans lui n'estoit rien fait, et par lui estoit tous fait, et le creoit li rois plus que tout le monde." Without him nothing is done and through him everything is done, and the king trusts him more than any other: Hugh Despenser the Younger and Edward II
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PostSubject: Studies   Sat Jan 12, 2008 11:49 pm

Ian Mortimer says that Roger founded a university in Ireland. What did people back then study, apart from religion, law and maybe Latin and history?
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PostSubject: Re: Roger   Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:11 pm

They did the 'Trivium' - grammar, logic, and rhetoric - and then later the 'Quadrivium', which consisted of mathematics, music, geometry and astronomy. Basically, the Trivium was the undergraduate course leading to a Bachelor of Arts, and the Quadrivium was postgrad, leading to a Master of Arts.

That's fascinating about Roger founding a university, isn't it? Good for him! Wonder what happened to it?

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"Sans lui n'estoit rien fait, et par lui estoit tous fait, et le creoit li rois plus que tout le monde." Without him nothing is done and through him everything is done, and the king trusts him more than any other: Hugh Despenser the Younger and Edward II
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PostSubject: Re: Roger   Mon Jan 14, 2008 2:16 pm

Wow, that's incredible! Music? Playing instruments like lute and harp, or voice too?

Sure is! I've been trying to find some refs on the net. Nothing so far.
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PostSubject: Re: Roger   Mon Jun 02, 2008 4:10 pm

Hi, may I add a postscript? Northern English was being spoken across the Lothians and border areas of Scotland at this time, and most lords and clergy spoke both Norman French and English, especially in the towns.

Most natives above the Forth/Clyde line - including their lords unless they were newcomers - spoke Gaelic, pronounced Ga - lick (as in the word 'gap'). Gaelic was the native language also in the whole of south-east Scotland in the old kingdom and province of Galloway, scene of many Balliol/Bruce conflicts.

So in addition to Norman French and (probably) English, there can be no doubt that Robert Bruce spoke Gaelic. The Bruce for example, by John Barbour, speaks of Robert and his foster-brother (not named) being fugitives and the latter being killed. Fosterage was a cornerstone of Celtic native tradition, and Robert's mother's earldom of Carrick was in a Gaelic heartland.

I lust after Cynthia Neville's book Native Lordship in Anglo-Saxon Scotland: the earldoms of Strathearn and Lennox 1170-1350. Perhaps Christmas . . .

Robert Bruce's brother, Alexander later Dean of Glasgow, attended Cambridge University. 'Magister" Bruce was given a feast by Robert on his inception, probably in the Spring of 1303. A well-known poet of the period, Robert Mannyng of Bourne or Brunne in Lincolnshire, knew Alexander at Cambridge and thought highly of him: "No-one who read arts at Cambridge before or since his time ever made such progress. He was a master of arts before his brother was king of Scotland."
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