Edward II

A forum to discuss the reign of Edward II and 14th century history
 
HomePortalFAQRegisterLog in

Share | 
 

 Joan Mortimer

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
Tansy



Number of posts : 8
Registration date : 2008-11-07

PostSubject: Joan Mortimer   Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:33 pm

I am interested in Roger Mortimer's wife Joan. I wondered what it was like for her and how she felt about his affair with Isabella. I think they seem to have had a good marriage to begin with - she travelled a lot with him and they had 12 children so maybe they were attracted to each other physically as well. However, I just wondered what happened between them? Did he still care about her during the time of his relationship with Isabella?

Also, I wonder how much he really cared for Isabella? Was it really a great love affair or did each of them see it as an opportunity - clearly Roger could help her and provide her with an army and she could help raise his status and return him from exile? Was it just a matter of convenience for them both rather than being some huge romantic affair? That said Isabella was very beautiful so I guess he would have been attracted to her and maybe her to his charismatic personality and his looks. I suppose we will never know but it interests me what the whole triangle was like between Joan-Roger-Isabella. And what about the 12 children - I wonder how they viewed their father's adultery.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Anejre

avatar

Number of posts : 187
Registration date : 2008-03-29

PostSubject: Re: Joan Mortimer   Fri Nov 07, 2008 10:55 pm

Personally, I find the 'romance' between Roger and Isabella rather too convenient - I think they both 'used' each other. In Roger's case, I think he felt he had to have a relationship with Isa to keep his position. I'm not saying that's the only reason he had a relationship with her - but it's just too convenient for him - especially, as you say, he seemed to be happily married to Joan.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Alianore
Admin
avatar

Number of posts : 168
Age : 45
Location : NRW, Germany
Registration date : 2007-09-30

PostSubject: Re: Joan Mortimer   Sat Nov 08, 2008 8:36 am

Tansy: you might be interested in a post I wrote about Joan and Roger Mortimer: http://edwardthesecond.blogspot.com/2007/04/birthday-wishes-mortimer-ancestry-and.html

It's mostly about their ancestry, though - I'd love to know more about their private lives, but as usual there's practically no evidence. Crying or Very sad

Judging by the number of children they had, and that Joan always accompanied Mortimer to Ireland, it seems that their marriage was a successful one.

I agree with Anerje - Mortimer got everything he wanted out of his relationship with Isabella, his lands back, revenge on Ed II, vast power and influence, and ultimately vast wealth. Maybe I'm cynical, but for me, it's laughable that all that came about coincidentally because he just happened to fall in love with Isa. That doesn't mean he felt nothing for her - she was beautiful, and he may well have come to have deep feelings for her - but it can't have been the primary reason for their affair. Like, I don't think anyone would believe that Hugh Despenser just happened to fall in love with Ed II in 1318, but for some reason, some people fall for the 'romance' of Mort and Isa. Myself, I find his relationship with Joan much more romantic!

I'd love to know more about the triangle too - why aren't there more sources for people's feelings?? Razz It would be great to explore it in fiction, I think.

_________________
"Sans lui n'estoit rien fait, et par lui estoit tous fait, et le creoit li rois plus que tout le monde." Without him nothing is done and through him everything is done, and the king trusts him more than any other: Hugh Despenser the Younger and Edward II
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://edwardthesecond.com/
Anejre

avatar

Number of posts : 187
Registration date : 2008-03-29

PostSubject: Re: Joan Mortimer   Sun Nov 09, 2008 6:31 pm

I have the feeling Mortimer made sure his wife's feelings on the matter were never known. Must have been humilating for her, and her children. I agree, it would make great fiction!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Tansy



Number of posts : 8
Registration date : 2008-11-07

PostSubject: Re: Joan Mortimer   Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:52 pm

Thanks Alianore and Anejre. I did read your post Alianore and found it really interesting.

I don't just think it was Roger who used though - I think Isabella probably did as well. Without Roger I don't think she would have been able to stage the invasion. I think maybe she was more in love with him - after Edward I think she would have been happy to have any man who paid her attention especially if he was handsome. I think she probably felt quite vulnerable at the time. However, I think she saw Roger as an ally as well and knew that an affair with him would be useful. I think that she probably did feel something for him, but we will never know the truth I guess. The whole thing seems to have been romanticised so much as well.

Joan fascinates me though. It is a shame not much more is known about her - I think she must have been a very interesting woman.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Alianore
Admin
avatar

Number of posts : 168
Age : 45
Location : NRW, Germany
Registration date : 2007-09-30

PostSubject: Re: Joan Mortimer   Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:59 am

I think so too, Tansy. It's a shame that Joan so often gets ignored in books - rarely appears except as the wife abandoned in favour of the beautiful, glamorous, royal Isabella. She deserves a lot better than that, IMO. I read a 'romance' novel last year (in inverted commas because it was vile) which depicted her as fat, unattractive, bovine and pretty thick, and hated it.

To me, it seems that Isa's actions from 1327 to 1330 imply that she was pretty infatuated with Mort - though I'm not sure that the beginning of their affair (or alliance) was necessarily based on lust or love, but was all about people deprived of lands and influence by Ed II and determined to get them back. The way they behaved from 1327 - more greedy and tyrannical than Ed and the Despensers - suggests to me that all they cared about was themselves, whereas some people have stated that they 'wanted to rid England of the Despenser tyranny' and so on.

_________________
"Sans lui n'estoit rien fait, et par lui estoit tous fait, et le creoit li rois plus que tout le monde." Without him nothing is done and through him everything is done, and the king trusts him more than any other: Hugh Despenser the Younger and Edward II
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://edwardthesecond.com/
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Joan Mortimer   

Back to top Go down
 
Joan Mortimer
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» Joan Rivers Exposed "O" & "M" and Now She's Dead! Was Joan Rivers Right ? Is Obama Gay and Michelle a Man Named Michael? Was She Offed?
» Bring up the Bodies

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Edward II :: Reign of Edward II :: Personalities :: Others-
Jump to: